Mondays or Fridays that fall on long weekends (such as Good Friday tomorrow, April 14) are classified as WEEKDAYS for risk assessment.
I see a holiday Friday or Monday to be more like a weekend day rather than a work day because there is no morning or afternoon rush.
Allstate does not see it this way.
Why?
Probably because they have an American company running the "test" for them and they do not know Canadian holidays and are too lazy to program the holidays into the system. Heaven forbid that they modify the holiday schedule every year.
Yet more proof that this "test" is not really what it should be.
Thursday, April 13, 2017
Saturday, April 8, 2017
Weekend-Weekday Problem
There appears to have been a problem on April 1-2
with Saturday and Sunday being seen as weekdays and not weekend days
thereby registering trips as medium of low risk trips rather than very low risk trips
On Saturday I made two trips between 5 and 7 pm.
These trips are registering and being calculated as LOW risk period trips
when they should be registering as VERY LOW period trips.
On Sunday my father made one trip between 9 and 10 am.
This trip is registering and being calculated as MEDIUM risk period trip
when it should be registering as a VERY LOW period trip
My father's driving should be
Odd thing
At the same time my father's estimated discount dropped from 25% to 22.5%
On March 17 his daily driving average was 9.30 km per day with discount 25%
Today, April his daily driving average is 8.83 km per day but discount is 22.5%
If there are calculation errors in the data that is visible by customers then how can we trust the integrity of the calculations being made to determine the discount? For some strange reason it feels like Allstate might be moving the goalposts to getting a good discount - making it more and more difficult.
Less driving but lower discount
On March 17
On April 8
Update: It has now been 2 weeks since the April 1-2 system screw-up. I asked Allstate for an update and this is what they told us:
Do they even care?
What worries me is that if there are errors like this that are visible to customers then how many errors are there that we can;t see but affect our rating and discount? I have seen my estimated discount drop twice for no apparent reason.
May 14 - Allstate knows there is a problem but they still have not fixed it!
with Saturday and Sunday being seen as weekdays and not weekend days
thereby registering trips as medium of low risk trips rather than very low risk trips
On Saturday I made two trips between 5 and 7 pm.
These trips are registering and being calculated as LOW risk period trips
when they should be registering as VERY LOW period trips.
On Sunday my father made one trip between 9 and 10 am.
This trip is registering and being calculated as MEDIUM risk period trip
when it should be registering as a VERY LOW period trip
My father's driving should be
| Should be | Is | |
| Very Low | 39.49% | 37.51% |
| Low | 52.43% | 52.45% |
| Medium | 8.08% | 10.04% |
Odd thing
At the same time my father's estimated discount dropped from 25% to 22.5%
On March 17 his daily driving average was 9.30 km per day with discount 25%
Today, April his daily driving average is 8.83 km per day but discount is 22.5%
If there are calculation errors in the data that is visible by customers then how can we trust the integrity of the calculations being made to determine the discount? For some strange reason it feels like Allstate might be moving the goalposts to getting a good discount - making it more and more difficult.
Less driving but lower discount
On March 17
On April 8
Update: It has now been 2 weeks since the April 1-2 system screw-up. I asked Allstate for an update and this is what they told us:
Thank you for your email. As we have advised, this is being investigated now. It may take us a few weeks to hear back as our vendor requires time to investigate to determine what is happening. We will be in touch as soon as we have an update for you. We appreciate your patience.
Thank you, Drivewise Support Team.How can it take potentially a MONTH to figure out what happened?
Do they even care?
What worries me is that if there are errors like this that are visible to customers then how many errors are there that we can;t see but affect our rating and discount? I have seen my estimated discount drop twice for no apparent reason.
May 14 - Allstate knows there is a problem but they still have not fixed it!
Tuesday, April 4, 2017
Website problem
Since March 29 to April 2 (so far) driving information is not being loaded into the system I have driven a few times but that is not showing up. Allstate knows there is a problem and they say data will be uploaded when the problem is fixed.
Also over the weekend the customer facing website was not working.
Fixed today - the website loads but data is not loaded to it.
Website April 1
Website April 2
Also over the weekend the customer facing website was not working.
Fixed today - the website loads but data is not loaded to it.
Website April 1
Thursday, March 2, 2017
Estimated discount drops for no apprent reason
This morning (March 2) my father's estimated discount dropped from 25% to 22.5% for no apparent reason.
My father's driving stats are still better than mine but he has the lower discount now.
Why?
He has less daily driving
He has fewer braking incidents
He has less driving in the medium and high risk times
He has lower high speed
yet his discount dropped
For comparison, here are my stats.
The only place where mine are better is that I have more driving in the very low time period
Update March 3
This morning my estimate discount also dropped even though my stats have improved
My km per day dropped from 9.25 to 9.21.
My percentage driving in the medium risk times dropped from 10.26% to 10.2%.
There have been no speeding or braking events.
This makes no sense
My father's driving stats are still better than mine but he has the lower discount now.
Why?
He has less daily driving
He has fewer braking incidents
He has less driving in the medium and high risk times
He has lower high speed
yet his discount dropped
For comparison, here are my stats.
The only place where mine are better is that I have more driving in the very low time period
Update March 3
This morning my estimate discount also dropped even though my stats have improved
My km per day dropped from 9.25 to 9.21.
My percentage driving in the medium risk times dropped from 10.26% to 10.2%.
There have been no speeding or braking events.
This makes no sense
Wednesday, February 22, 2017
I finally received 25% estimated discount
So that you know what is required to get an estimated 25% discount
Drive less than 3,500 km per year
Drive less than 3,500 km per year
Monday, February 6, 2017
Time of Day driving stats are not accurate
The Time of Day statistics have been confusing me.
The 'official' statistics on the Allstate website do not align with my calculations even though I am using the times and distances recorded by Allstate. I have double checked and triple checked my driving stats and then checked my father's stats and found the same problems (errors).
The error is not to my benefit as the error skews towards higher risk driving times.
The easiest check is the one driving event that I had during a "high risk" period between 11:00 pm and midnight. I drove 9.0 km and at present I have a total distance driven of 1,006.8 km.
Calculation: 9.0 divided by 1,006.8 = 0.0089 or 0.89%
The absolute difference is 0.04%
The percentage different is 0.04%/0.89% = 4.5% error (not to my benefit)
If the discount is based on calculations of all our driving statistics how can we trust the hidden proprietary calculations if simple errors such as this are clearly evident?
Another oddity is that sometimes updates are made in real time and other times changes happen after days of no driving.
The program makes no sense and is confusing.
Same problem on my father's stats
Update:
Either the DriveWise program updates the Time of Day stats only periodically (not all the time after each trip) or there was a problem with the calculations. I submitted an email to the DriveWise support team pointing out the errors and the next day the online numbers aligned with my own calculations but the anonymous support elf told me there are no problems with the system.
Update 2:
A DriveWise customer support elf told me that some of my calculations are off due to a problem in the FAQs. Supposedly the FAQs were wrong about what time the high, medium and low risk period start.
Old FAQ
Under this FAQ driving at 11:00 pm seems to fall under the LOW risk period but the system actually calculates it as HIGH risk.
The 'official' statistics on the Allstate website do not align with my calculations even though I am using the times and distances recorded by Allstate. I have double checked and triple checked my driving stats and then checked my father's stats and found the same problems (errors).
The error is not to my benefit as the error skews towards higher risk driving times.
The easiest check is the one driving event that I had during a "high risk" period between 11:00 pm and midnight. I drove 9.0 km and at present I have a total distance driven of 1,006.8 km.
Calculation: 9.0 divided by 1,006.8 = 0.0089 or 0.89%
The absolute difference is 0.04%
The percentage different is 0.04%/0.89% = 4.5% error (not to my benefit)
If the discount is based on calculations of all our driving statistics how can we trust the hidden proprietary calculations if simple errors such as this are clearly evident?
Another oddity is that sometimes updates are made in real time and other times changes happen after days of no driving.
The program makes no sense and is confusing.
Same problem on my father's stats
Update:
Either the DriveWise program updates the Time of Day stats only periodically (not all the time after each trip) or there was a problem with the calculations. I submitted an email to the DriveWise support team pointing out the errors and the next day the online numbers aligned with my own calculations but the anonymous support elf told me there are no problems with the system.
Update 2:
A DriveWise customer support elf told me that some of my calculations are off due to a problem in the FAQs. Supposedly the FAQs were wrong about what time the high, medium and low risk period start.
Old FAQ
Under this FAQ driving at 11:00 pm seems to fall under the LOW risk period but the system actually calculates it as HIGH risk.
New FAQ
The deleted the :01 from the start time of each risk time
High risk now starts at 11 pm
The deleted the :01 from the start time of each risk time
High risk now starts at 11 pm
Even these new FAQs are technically wrong because according to this schedule 11:00pm is now both low and high risk according to this FAQ.
If they wanted to be proper it would state that LOW risk is from 12:00:01 pm to 11:59:59 pm
If they wanted to be proper it would state that LOW risk is from 12:00:01 pm to 11:59:59 pm
Wednesday, February 1, 2017
DriveWise estimate discount drops for no apparent reason
Understanding the model used by DriveWise to determine how good a driver you are and the level of estimated discount is difficult because there seem to be wonky inconsistencies.
My father is on the program and his driving stats are better than mine.
On January 9 he had an estimated discount of 22.5% with 10.57 km/day
On January 13 his driving average went up to 11.37 km/day but the estimated discount rose to 25%
On January 23 he had an estimated discount of 25%
One week later, on January 30 his discount dropped to 22.5% even though he is driving on average only 9.4 km/day.
We were both confused by the decrease because my father had:
- lower average daily drive (drop from 9.85 to 9.4 km/day)
- better time of day (low and medium dropped and very low increased)
- no speeding events
- no braking events
My father asked DriveWise why this decrease happened and the following is their response:
Thank you for reaching out to the Drivewise Support Team.
The estimated discount will fluctuate as data is gathered.
At 2 months of the 6 month program there is still a lot of data to gather and the program is still understanding your normal driving habits. The Estimated Discount is an estimation of the discount you are tracking towards.
Once the program is completed the final and earned discount will be calculated and you will receive an email detailing the earned discount and a high level summary of the data collected.
On Jan 23 2017 the estimated discount of 25% was later updated to reflect vehicle use and on Jan 28 2017 the estimated discount adjusted to 22.5%.
As the Time of Day information is provided as a percentage even increased driving can maintain the same overall time of day statistics.
What kind of an answer is this?
They did not answer the question.
The same thing happened to me but unfortunately I did not take screenshots at the time to track my DriveWise discounts.
On December 2 I received my first estimate and it was 20%.
On December 8 my estimated discount dropped to 15%
- there was no apparent reason as I did not drive more per day, did not have a braking incident nor drive more at the "bad" times of day.
I asked DriveWise why this happened but they never gave a real answer. DriveWise is excellent at giving "non-answers" just repeating their marketing stuff.
After that, since I do not drive much, my estimated discount rose again slowly and has plateaued at 20%.
Update:
February 11, driving is at 8.7 km/day but the discount is still at 22.5%
DriveWise is not really a great discount
Getting a 20% or 25% or 30% discount sounds like a great deal when you are paying $1,500 per year for car insurance - right? A 30% discount is $450! WOW.
But when you think about it, the person who qualifies for the 30% discount is actually, in a way, getting screwed,
Think of it this way
So, the normal risk (average) driver pays 7.5c/km while the low risk driver pays 35c/km.
So, what kind of a discount is that?
Maybe we should have a standard pay per use model based on the distance you drive.
Maybe a standard 8 cents per kilometer.
That would make sense.
But when you think about it, the person who qualifies for the 30% discount is actually, in a way, getting screwed,
Think of it this way
- Someone that drives normally, to work and back, has a social life and takes some 'pleasure drives' can drive about 20,000 km
per year. This person might have a premium of $1,500 which on a pay per use basis is about 7.5 cents per km
for insurance.
- Someone that drives very little (the retired weekend driver), might drive 3,000 km per year. If this person qualifies for the 30% discount they will pay $1,050 per year which n a pay per use basis is about 35 cents per km for insurance.
So, the normal risk (average) driver pays 7.5c/km while the low risk driver pays 35c/km.
The supposed low risk driver pay 467% more for car insurance
on a pay per use basis than does the regular driver.
So, what kind of a discount is that?
Maybe we should have a standard pay per use model based on the distance you drive.
Maybe a standard 8 cents per kilometer.
That would make sense.
DriveWise braking events
In DriveWise
DriveWise says that the number of braking events does not matter - they are interested in patterns of braking. Drivewise support told me the following:
I am suspicious of this as I have had 6 hard braking events and no extreme braking events. My last braking event was more than a month ago and my braking stats icon does not change. I have on average 1 braking event per 162 km or 1 braking event per 32 trips. Not a lot of braking events.
It is very easy to trigger a hard braking event.
Tricks to avoid braking:
Other Reviews
Drivewise by Allstate
Drive Wise: My Thoughts and Opinions on Driving Safe
My Experience Using Allstate's Drive Wise Device
- Hard Braking = vehicle decelerates more than 13 to 16 km/hour per second
- Extreme Braking = vehicle decelerates more than 16 km/hour per second
DriveWise says that the number of braking events does not matter - they are interested in patterns of braking. Drivewise support told me the following:
My question: For your best drivers, people that get a 20 to 25% discount, what is the typical number of braking events per week?
Drivewise answer: We do not have a specific answer that we can give to that, as we look at the number of braking events that occur during the full monitoring period in relation to the number of kilometers driven. What we can tell you is that people earning between 20% and 25% would typically have less than one braking event per week.
We are aware that the drivers around you may cause you to need to brake suddenly, however these instances should be rare. Our suggestion to try to avoid needing to brake suddenly in situations like this is to leave plenty of room between you and the drivers around you whenever possible to reduce the need to react to their behaviours.
I am suspicious of this as I have had 6 hard braking events and no extreme braking events. My last braking event was more than a month ago and my braking stats icon does not change. I have on average 1 braking event per 162 km or 1 braking event per 32 trips. Not a lot of braking events.
It is very easy to trigger a hard braking event.
- 3 of my braking events were to slow down for a yellow light
- 1 braking event for a guy that stopped fast in front of me
- 1 braking event for a guy that almost cut me off as he entered my lane
- 1 braking event at a Costco parking lot as some jerk ran in front of me
Tricks to avoid braking:
- Drive 10 km/h under the speed limit
- Have 3 car lengths between you and the car in front
- Start to slow down BEFORE the traffic light turns yellow
- ... or speed up when when the traffic light turns yellow to not have to stop.
- If a small animal runs in front of your car, don't stop.
Other Reviews
Drivewise by Allstate
Drive Wise: My Thoughts and Opinions on Driving Safe
My Experience Using Allstate's Drive Wise Device
Does Drive Wise actually encourage unsafe driving?
I feel like Drive Wise encourages running red lights. Maybe that's an exaggeration, but if I'm driving along at or even slightly below the speed limit, and the light I'm approaching goes from green to yellow to red very quickly--which seems to happen a lot around here--I have to make a decision to brake a little harder than usual or speed up and go through the red light just after it turns. I don't SLAM on my brakes to do that, but I sometimes have to slow down rather quickly. And each time that happens, Drive Wise records an "event" and lowers my projected discount. I'd be concerned that people who install Drive Wise might be tempted to run through those lights more often.
Some of my DriveWise estimated discounts
Every once in a while I check my estimated discounts.
To help you get a sense of what to expect take a look at these
On December 18, 2016 I had one estimate early in the day at 17.5%
Later in the day they recalculated time of day driving averages and my estimated discount changed. It seems that driving between 10:00am and noon, during weekdays, has an important effect in the discount. Strange thing is that the road congestion in Mississauga between 9:00am and noon (medium risk time) is lower than the road congestion between 5:00pm and 7:00p (low risk) which is high congestion rush hour. Strange - it makes no sense.
After 2 months
By January 6 my driving was on average 12.64 km/day or 4,164 km per year but my discount is still just 20%
Halfway through the 6 month "test"
I have 6 "hard brakes" (no extreme braking events) and just one 9 km trip at about 11:30 pm
Driving is just 10.77 mm/day or 3930 km/year and still just 20% discount.
Another person in the family also taking the test, 1/3 way through the program has much better stats with only 1 braking event and 3,365 km/year but at only 22.5% discount.
It appears that getting a 30% discount is very very very difficult.
To help you get a sense of what to expect take a look at these
On December 18, 2016 I had one estimate early in the day at 17.5%
Later in the day they recalculated time of day driving averages and my estimated discount changed. It seems that driving between 10:00am and noon, during weekdays, has an important effect in the discount. Strange thing is that the road congestion in Mississauga between 9:00am and noon (medium risk time) is lower than the road congestion between 5:00pm and 7:00p (low risk) which is high congestion rush hour. Strange - it makes no sense.
After 2 months
By January 6 my driving was on average 12.64 km/day or 4,164 km per year but my discount is still just 20%
Halfway through the 6 month "test"
I have 6 "hard brakes" (no extreme braking events) and just one 9 km trip at about 11:30 pm
Driving is just 10.77 mm/day or 3930 km/year and still just 20% discount.
Another person in the family also taking the test, 1/3 way through the program has much better stats with only 1 braking event and 3,365 km/year but at only 22.5% discount.
It appears that getting a 30% discount is very very very difficult.
What does DriveWise really test (distance not wisdom)
In the USA
In Canada
All the advertising led me to believe that the DriveWise program was designed to reward people that Drive Wisely and are good drivers.
In a way it is true but not really.
As I said in my first post, I have been with Allstate for over 20 years with not a single at fault claim, no demerits and I can't remember when I got my last traffic ticket. I estimate that over the last 25 years I have driven more than 500,000 km. Over the last 5 years I do not drive much. I would assume that if I do not cause any accidents that I am a good driver.
From what I have seen of the program, my assessment is that the first criteria is not how well you drive but how much you drive.
To get any real discount from my observations these are the first criteria you need to pass
20% discount = less than 6,000 km per year
21-24% discount = 4,000 to 5,000 km per year
25-27% discount = 3,000 to 4,000 km per year
30% discount = less than 3,000 km per year
After the "how much you drive" criteria you start to lose points for
1. What time of day you drive (driving on weekdays before noon is surprisingly bad)
2. How many times you have "braking events"
3. How often you speed
From Drivewise
So, my first lesson learned about DriveWise = Don't Drive
Other Reviews
Allstate Drivewise Review: The Pros and Cons
Allstate Drivewise: An Honest Review
Drivewise - the program that pays you for smart driving.
Drivewise is a way for smart drivers to get rewarded for driving safely every day. Each time you take a drive, it collects feedback on driving behaviors including hard braking, high speed and when you're behind the wheel. The safer you drive, the more you can earn!
In Canada
What is Drivewise?
Allstate created Drivewise to help drivers who exhibit certain safe driving behaviours to save money on insurance, to help save lives and reduce losses on our roads. Through the use of a telematics device, the Drivewise program promotes safe driving awareness. It’s designed to reward safe driving behaviour by recording when and how many kilometers are driven as well as how safely the vehicle is operated.
All the advertising led me to believe that the DriveWise program was designed to reward people that Drive Wisely and are good drivers.
In a way it is true but not really.
As I said in my first post, I have been with Allstate for over 20 years with not a single at fault claim, no demerits and I can't remember when I got my last traffic ticket. I estimate that over the last 25 years I have driven more than 500,000 km. Over the last 5 years I do not drive much. I would assume that if I do not cause any accidents that I am a good driver.
From what I have seen of the program, my assessment is that the first criteria is not how well you drive but how much you drive.
To get any real discount from my observations these are the first criteria you need to pass
20% discount = less than 6,000 km per year
21-24% discount = 4,000 to 5,000 km per year
25-27% discount = 3,000 to 4,000 km per year
30% discount = less than 3,000 km per year
After the "how much you drive" criteria you start to lose points for
1. What time of day you drive (driving on weekdays before noon is surprisingly bad)
2. How many times you have "braking events"
3. How often you speed
From Drivewise
My question: What are the criteria for getting 20% and 25% discount?
Drivewise answer: Though there are no specific guidelines to achieve a 20-25% discount, customers who typically drive around 3,000-4,000 km annually would stand to see the highest chances of earning a higher discount. Keep in mind, this is all dependant on the other factors as the discount is determined and calculated with all four factors working together.
So, my first lesson learned about DriveWise = Don't Drive
Other Reviews
Allstate Drivewise Review: The Pros and Cons
Allstate Drivewise: An Honest Review
Why did I susbscribe to the Allstate DriveWise program
I have been with Allstate Insurance in Southern Ontario for over 20 years. In all that time I have not had an at fault claim and I can't remember when I got the last traffic ticket. I have no demerit points. I have a 2006 Dodge Charger (V6). A nice safe car that is not too expensive. My insurance rates keep going up and up and up. I have home insurance bundle discount, multi-car discount, winter tire discount, email discount and other discounts that I don't even remember but the price keeps going up and up and up.
Then Allstate told me that I could sign up for the DriveWise Program.
What is Drivewise?
A great new way for drivers to save up to 30% on their auto insurance.
I was told that I could save up to 30%! WOW - sign me up. I wanted to get onto the program in Nov 2015 but I was not told that I had to start the program on the date of my renewal and so I had to wait a year until November 2016.
My first impression with the program: Allstate does not provide a lot of detail on what being a "good driver" is. They do not tell you what the criteria are for getting a 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25% or 30% discount. Neither the DriveWise support team nor the internal "Ombudsman" will provide information because they state that information is proprietary. OK - I can understand that.
Allstate will also not answer questions about what the distribution of discounts is.
No answer about how many people get a 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25% or 30% discount.
I was told that the average discount is about 8.4% (Dec 2016)
I thought the discount distribution might be like line A
but now my gut feel says it is more like line B
Lesson learned: Like store sales that have BIG signs that state in large numbers 75% OFF, but in very small letters saying "up to". Very very few people will get between 25% and 30% discount. Very few. So few that Allstate does not even want to disclose the number.
In this blog I will provide my thoughts on my experience with the Allstate DriveWise program.
My demographic stats.
Gender: Male
Age: 50
Status: Single
Area: Mississauga, Ontario
Note: I do not drive the car to work.
Other reviews
Chris Patterson - Dec 17, 2013
George Burgyan - Jan 30, 2012
Then Allstate told me that I could sign up for the DriveWise Program.
What is Drivewise?
A great new way for drivers to save up to 30% on their auto insurance.
I was told that I could save up to 30%! WOW - sign me up. I wanted to get onto the program in Nov 2015 but I was not told that I had to start the program on the date of my renewal and so I had to wait a year until November 2016.
My first impression with the program: Allstate does not provide a lot of detail on what being a "good driver" is. They do not tell you what the criteria are for getting a 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25% or 30% discount. Neither the DriveWise support team nor the internal "Ombudsman" will provide information because they state that information is proprietary. OK - I can understand that.
Allstate will also not answer questions about what the distribution of discounts is.
No answer about how many people get a 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25% or 30% discount.
From Drivewise support: As we do have privacy and confidentiality policies in place, we cannot share the details as to how many customers are earning which types of discounts. However, we do have a wide range of customers earning discounts across the board from 0-30%.
I was told that the average discount is about 8.4% (Dec 2016)
I thought the discount distribution might be like line A
but now my gut feel says it is more like line B
Lesson learned: Like store sales that have BIG signs that state in large numbers 75% OFF, but in very small letters saying "up to". Very very few people will get between 25% and 30% discount. Very few. So few that Allstate does not even want to disclose the number.
In this blog I will provide my thoughts on my experience with the Allstate DriveWise program.
My demographic stats.
Gender: Male
Age: 50
Status: Single
Area: Mississauga, Ontario
Note: I do not drive the car to work.
Other reviews
Chris Patterson - Dec 17, 2013
George Burgyan - Jan 30, 2012
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